Discourses on the First Ten Books of Livy
by Niccolò Machiavelli · Discorsi sopra la prima deca di Tito Livio
Assigned by 5 of the 9 reading lists
Machiavelli's longer and more republican book, written in the same exile that produced The Prince: a commentary on Livy's history of early Rome, in three books of short chapters that each take an episode and draw a rule from it. Book I treats Rome's internal constitution and argues that the running conflict between nobles and people was the source of its liberty rather than a flaw in it, and that religion is a political instrument. Book II covers war and expansion, and the uselessness of mercenaries. Book III turns to individuals, conspiracies, and the need for a republic to be dragged back to its founding principles before corruption finishes it.
We recommendDiscourses on Livy, translated by Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan TarcovUniversity of Chicago Press, 1996The literal translation that matches Mansfield's Prince, with an introduction on the book's structure.
Also goodcompare
- Julia Conaway Bondanella and Peter Bondanella. More readable English than Mansfield, with notes that identify the Roman episodes Machiavelli assumes you know.
- Peter Constantine. Substantial selections from the Discourses alongside The Prince and the letters, if you want them together.
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- Written
- written c. 1513-1517, published 1531
- Era
- Renaissance
- Form
- Political theory
- Language
- Italian
- Length
- Long · 350 pp300 to 700 pages
- Difficulty
- Demanding3 of 5 for a first-year reader
Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan Tarcov translation
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Why it's on the list
Everyone reads The Prince and almost nobody reads this, which is why Machiavelli has the reputation he has. The Discourses is the longer book, took him longer to write, and argues for a republic: that a free state is stronger and more durable than a principality, that the people are a better guardian of liberty than the nobles, and, most startlingly, that the constant conflict between the classes in Rome was the cause of Rome's freedom rather than a defect in it. Programs assign it because it is the bridge between ancient and modern republicanism, read closely by Harrington, by the English commonwealthmen and through them by Madison and Adams, and because it is the first sustained attempt to derive political rules from history rather than from how things ought to be.
Key themes
- Society and the state
- Rome's tumults between senate and plebs produced the tribunate and the laws that guarded liberty. Machiavelli argues that a state without internal conflict is not harmonious but dead.
- Liberty and rights
- A free way of life means self-government and independence from outside masters. Machiavelli thinks the many want only not to be oppressed, which makes them the safer custodians of it.
- History and progress
- History is usable because human nature is constant: the same passions produce the same effects, so Rome can instruct Florence. This is the assumption the whole book rests on.
- Virtue and character
- Virtù is not moral goodness but capacity, the force that meets fortune. A republic has it in its institutions and its religion rather than in one man, which is why it outlasts a prince.
- Power and authority
- A republic corrupts over time and must be dragged back to its beginnings, sometimes by an execution shocking enough to remind everybody what the laws are.
Which translation to read
For Discourses on the First Ten Books of Livy the translation is most of the decision. Our pick is the Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan Tarcov translation; the others are good for different reasons.
Our pick
Discourses on Livy, translated by Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan Tarcov
University of Chicago Press, 1996
The literal translation that matches Mansfield's Prince, with an introduction on the book's structure.
Amazon: the Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan Tarcov translation, opens in a new tabBookshop.org: the Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan Tarcov translation, opens in a new tab
Also good
Discourses on Livy, translated by Julia Conaway Bondanella and Peter Bondanella
Oxford World's Classics, 2008
More readable English than Mansfield, with notes that identify the Roman episodes Machiavelli assumes you know.
Amazon: the Julia Conaway Bondanella and Peter Bondanella translation, opens in a new tabBookshop.org: the Julia Conaway Bondanella and Peter Bondanella translation, opens in a new tab
Also good
The Essential Writings of Machiavelli, translated by Peter Constantine
Modern Library, 2007
Substantial selections from the Discourses alongside The Prince and the letters, if you want them together.
Amazon: the Peter Constantine translation, opens in a new tabBookshop.org: the Peter Constantine translation, opens in a new tab
Overview
Three books, a hundred and forty-two short chapters, roughly 350 pages. Machiavelli wrote it in the same years as The Prince, after the Medici returned to Florence in 1512, stripped him of his office, had him tortured on suspicion of conspiracy and released him to a farm outside the city. It was published in 1531, four years after his death.
The form is a commentary. He takes episodes from the first ten books of Livy’s history of Rome, the period from the founding to the war with Hannibal, and uses each as a case from which to derive a rule. The chapter titles read like propositions: that the multitude is wiser and more constant than a prince, that the fortresses princes build do more harm than good, that a state which wishes to remain free must renew itself.
It is discursive, repetitive and unfinished in places. It is also, unlike The Prince, a book about how free peoples govern themselves.
The argument
Book I is on internal politics. Machiavelli starts with constitutional forms, takes Polybius’ cycle of degeneration, and argues that Rome’s mixed constitution, combining consuls, senate and tribunes, resisted the cycle. Then comes the claim that made Renaissance readers uncomfortable: the disunion between the senate and the plebs, all those secessions and riots, was the cause of Rome’s liberty. Every law protecting freedom came out of that friction. A state where the classes do not contend is either tyrannised or asleep.
He is equally direct about religion. Roman religion was a political institution, and Numa’s use of oracles and auspices did more for Rome than Romulus’ arms. Machiavelli praises it for making citizens brave and oath-bound, and blames the Church of his own day for two specific crimes: teaching Italians to admire humility rather than worldly glory, and being strong enough to keep Italy divided while too weak to unite it.
Book II is on expansion and war. Rome grew by absorbing defeated peoples, by making allies rather than subjects at first, and by relying on its own citizen soldiers. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless, the theme he shares with The Prince. He argues against the common view that money is the sinew of war: good soldiers get money, money does not get soldiers.
Book III is on individuals and renewal. Republics decay as the founding severity fades, and must be brought back to first principles every so often, by a law or by an act sufficiently memorable to frighten people back into the old discipline. His examples include the execution of Brutus’ own sons. He treats conspiracies at length and with disconcerting practicality, examines why the same tactics succeed for one commander and fail for another, and returns repeatedly to the ingratitude of peoples toward those who have served them.
How to read it
Read Book I, chapters 1 to 18, closely. That is the constitutional core and contains the argument about tumults, the discussion of religion, and the case for popular judgement. Then read I.58, on whether the people or a prince is wiser, and III.1, on returning to beginnings. Most courses assign a selection close to that.
Read The Prince first if you have not. The two books are usually set against each other, and the interesting question is whether they conflict. The standard positions: that Machiavelli is a republican who wrote The Prince as a job application, that he is a teacher of tyranny whose republicanism is a pose, or that both books describe the same politics for different circumstances, one for founding and one for maintaining.
You do not need to know Livy. Machiavelli summarises each episode before drawing his rule, and the Bondanella notes fill the gaps. Do notice where he changes a story to fit his conclusion, because he does.
Mansfield and Tarcov translate literally and keep virtù and other terms visible, which makes the book harder and more accurate. The Bondanellas read more easily. For a first encounter the Oxford is kinder.
The common misreading is that this is a nicer Machiavelli. It is not. He is as willing to recommend killing the sons of Brutus here as anything in The Prince; the difference is that the beneficiary is a republic rather than a prince.
Questions it raises
- Can conflict between classes really be the source of liberty, or was Rome free despite its tumults rather than because of them?
- Machiavelli praises Roman religion for its political usefulness and blames Christianity for weakening Italy. Is a religion judged by its effects still a religion?
- If a republic must periodically be returned to its beginnings by terror, is it stable or merely long-lived?
- The people are said to be wiser and more constant than a prince. What is the evidence, and does it survive modern mass politics?
- Are The Prince and the Discourses the same teaching in different circumstances, or two different books?
- Machiavelli assumes human nature is constant, which is what lets Rome instruct Florence. Is that assumption doing legitimate work or hiding the differences?
Highlights
In every republic there are two different inclinations, that of the people and that of the great men, and all the laws that are made in favour of liberty are born of the disunion between them.
Paraphrase of the central claim of I.4, in the wording most English editions converge on.
For as good customs have need of laws to maintain them, so laws have need of good customs in order to be observed.
The people are more prudent, more stable, and of better judgement than a prince.
Paraphrase of the chapter's thesis, which Machiavelli defends against Livy himself.
Whoever desires to found a state and give it laws, must start with assuming that all men are bad and ever ready to display their vicious nature.



